The Recovered Life Show

Here is the complete, verbatim text transcript of the attached episode, "Teen New Audio Master.mp3":

Network Intro

Voiceover: This show is a proud part of Recovered Life, a media network and peer support community dedicated to mental health and addiction recovery. We bring together expert voices, real stories, and a peer support community to help you live your best recovered life. Join us at recoveredlife.tv.

Episode Intro

Voiceover: You’re listening to The Recovered Life Show, the show that helps people in recovery live their best recovered life. And here is your host, Damon Frank.

Damon: Welcome back to the Recovered Life Show. Today we’re talking about teen addiction: signs, symptoms, and early intervention. My guest today is Kennedy McGuckin, a mental health therapist at Noble Intent in Boise, Idaho. Kennedy is passionate about helping her clients understand their full potential by creating a safe space and validating feelings that are hard to handle. Welcome to the show, Kennedy.

Kennedy: Thank you for having me.

Current Trends in Teen Addiction

Damon: So great to have you on the show. You know, I’ve been wanting to do an episode on this for quite some time. We have a lot of people obviously that listen to the show that are in recovery, and they have kids. And one of the things that we know about addiction is sometimes it repeats itself. People who I know—I had addiction in my family, and then I ended up having alcoholism, right? So it is sometimes generational. So I really wanted to dive into this topic and, you know, talk about teens and addiction and how to kind of identify that there might be an issue.

You know, real quick before we—before we dive into this, Kennedy, I wanted to kind of ask your opinion and your perspective on what you see with teens and addiction. Is it more prevalent than it’s been in the past, or is it actually going down, the amount of cases you're seeing?

Kennedy: Yeah, I think it’s definitely more prevalent, or the drug of choice that they’re using is becoming different than just alcohol and a weed addiction. It’s becoming more narcotics or, um, opioids. So, that’s something that we are seeing a lot in the past couple of years. Um, I just looked up a statistic before I popped on here: between 2019 and 2021, the overdose from fentanyl in schools has tripled, um, and that number is only been going up as these drugs are becoming more laced. So, that was something that I wanted to talk about, too, and we'll get to that at a later point in today, but um, yeah, it’s definitely going up. It’s not going up at a skyrocketing rate, but just because the drugs are becoming more laced, um, it’s becoming more um lethal, I guess is a good way to put it.

Damon: Yeah, you know what, like I—you know, I’m a firm believer—I think alcohol is very dangerous. You know, there’s a lot of deaths, you know, in high school, even junior high all the way down, up and especially in college. We see this a lot of alcohol poisoning. But I think one of the things that is different is I’ve noticed that the kids have—I'm just the kids, the teens—have way more access to harder drugs than I did when I was in the '80s and '90s. Like, we’re talking like horse tranquilizers, you're talking about fentanyl... It seems that the margin of error to make a mistake and absolutely overdose is much higher now. It’s much more probable than—than it was generations back. I mean, would you agree with that?

Kennedy: I completely agree, and I like the way that you just put that: "the margin for error." Um, which is why preventative methods are really important, or harm reduction is also very important in schools and at home. Um, something that I did want to discuss today was with having overdose so high happening in schools during school time, like it would be a great idea for schools to start working on harm reduction. Like, how do we train our teachers to use Narcan when there is an overdose in the school? Because there is that huge margin of error, right? Like we know to call 911 if there’s an alcohol overdose, or we can kind of catch signs of an alcohol overdose like, okay, this person has droopy eyes, you know, slurring speech. Um, overdose with fentanyl, excuse me, and other drugs happens like that. Um, and when you have Narcan, a life-saving drug, around, it can really help save a life of a kid, and having teachers trained in that way or, um, any adult around teenagers or around even younger kiddos now, like it is so important to have that, um, just at hand so that we can prevent that death from happening with that margin of error that you were talking about, for sure.

Recognizing Signs and Symptoms

Damon: Absolutely. I—I love this idea of harm reduction. You know, it’s—it’s interesting because as somebody who’s in recovery, been in for a while, you know, and I have a teenager that went through high school and is in early college and stuff, and as somebody who doesn’t, you know, is just not interested necessarily in—in drugs and alcohol at all. It's—it's definitely a—a generational shift. I see a lot of kids saying very early on, "Hey, this isn’t for me." Maybe they had somebody in their family that’s in recovery, or they’ve seen it. It’s just not for them. And I like that. Much more than when I was in school where everybody quote "tried alcohol," like, you know, like there was a lot of peer—and now, people do stand up. There’s like, you know, sober college groups and the whole thing.

But I want to talk about parents that are out there that might start to see some things that are bugging them, and it’s not just, "Hey, they went to a party, they had alcohol or some drugs, and then it really didn’t happen again." What are some of the signs and symptoms that you might see in a teenager if you’re a parent, a guardian, or a loved one, that might say, "Hey, you know what, maybe this isn’t just they went to a party and experimented, this is maybe something more... maybe it's developing into an addiction"?

Kennedy: Yeah, a lot of it will, um, mimic signs of like anxiety and depression. So, um, for example, I really like the saying, like, "A lone wolf is the unhealthiest wolf in the pack." So if you’re noticing your child isolating more, or um, hygiene is going downhill, like they’re not showering, um, you know, their sleep habits are kind of off, like they’re either sleeping not at all and still having a lot of energy, or they’re sleeping all the time to have that recovery for their bodies and minds after using whatever drug of choice they pick.

Um, something else can be mood shifts, like, um, how do I want to say it? Like, less motivated or unmotivated, or um, yeah, a lot of symptoms will just mimic depression and anxiety, and that’s kind of when parents should speak up and notice. Like, "Hey, I noticed that you’re sleeping a lot more than usual. Like, can you tell me what’s going on with that? Are you just tired? Like, are you feeling, um, you know, is school too stressful? Like, what’s going on there?" Um, yeah, and a lot of behavioral changes. If you’re noticing this kiddo that you knew two months ago is a completely different human, um, for the worse, like definitely speak up before it’s too late and say something like, "Hey, can we talk about this? Like, what’s been going on, you know? Um, how can we work through this together?" And just having a no-shame or no-guilt approach, and really like cultivating a space of like, "Let’s talk about this," you know, like, "We’re all human, our kids are human too." So let's discuss, like, what’s going on, because a lot of it has to do with stress or, um, you know, just peer pressure too, right? Like, "All my friends are drinking, so why—like, why wouldn't I drink?" You know? Or they just don’t understand the side effects of being a teen and using. So, yeah.

Initiating the Conversation

Damon: Yeah, you know what, I—I—and what you're kind of tapping on is education. You know, it’s—it’s interesting because I think teens are more educated than they’ve ever been in—in—in a certain way. I mean, I know in my house, obviously a kid growing up, you know, they saw me in recovery, so they met people who were in recovery. We openly talked about, like, the pros and cons of alcohol and drugs, and that there are some people who can take alcohol and drugs, and there’s some people who can’t, and I’m one of those people who can’t. I just cannot do it, right? And that everybody is—is—is different, you know, in—in—in that sense.

But we know statistically, uh, Kennedy, that what—I remember when I was a kid it was 10% of the people might have a problem. I read something the other day it was like 20% to 30% of people now that are taking drugs and alcohol identify as somebody who has a—you know, a—an addiction issue or some sort of issue that relates to that. How do parents actually start that discussion?

I think that’s a—a good one because they—I think no parent really wants to accuse their kid or make it worse, right? We don’t want to make a big deal when it’s not a big deal, but at the same time, we don’t want our kid sliding down that slippery slope. How do you do that? How do you start that discussion as a parent?

Kennedy: Yeah, I love the um, the saying, "Let’s call people in rather than call them out." So instead of—and it’s hard, right, as a parent there’s no handbook, and I actually work a lot with parents and teens, so a lot of it is just educating parents on how to be a parent and have those conversations, right? So, um, going in with like, going in with an intention rather than just being like, "Oh my gosh, I’m going to kick down my kid’s door and just let them have it for coming in late," or whatever it may be. Like, coming in with, um, uh, the saying, too, like unconditional positive regard. Like, "I’m coming from a place of love and I’m concerned about my child and I want to open a conversation with them. Hey, can you tell me about what’s going on with you? Um, and what are you—what are you doing? Like, what’s going on here?"

Um, educating them on what is drug and alcohol abuse and what is experimenting, I think, is a really good thing. Having this conversation, too, as soon as possible. Like, when they turn 10, have a conversation that is, um, appropriate for their age, and being like, "These are drugs and alcohol, you know, and you probably might experiment with them, you might not. Here’s what it looks like when stuff kind of goes downhill." Um, yeah, and just opening that conversation with them. "Can you tell me about this?" Like, go in with curiosity rather than blame, and I think you’ll get a lot further than if it’s just an immediate like, "Where were you last night? You’re grounded, give me all your things," you know, rather than, um, "Like hey, what’s going on? You know, where were you? Um, who are you with? What were you doing? Um, is this the first time you’ve been using? Are you concerned about your drug use or alcohol use?" Just like open-ended questions that are coming from a place of curiosity and love rather than that shame and blame game. So, yeah.

Teen Peer Groups and Intervention

Damon: You know, it’s—it’s interesting because even though there’s so much education, Kennedy, a lot of the times I see there is such, um, myth and, uh, really wrong information about addiction. You know, I think people still believe that, um, addiction is some sort of personal character defect with people. And you know, and I know from somebody who has been in addiction, there’s a biological difference when I drink as opposed to some—something happens to me when I drink that doesn't, and you know, it’s interesting because when you have this conversation with teens, and I have had this conversation with large groups of teens, they—they tend to know the people in their peer groups that don’t react well when that—when that—when that weird thing that’s really hard to kind of put, like, your thumb on, that it’s like, "This person is different when they use drugs and drink than my—than my fellows," right?

Um, you know, talk—let’s talk a little bit about, uh, other teens, right? Teens being able to see teens having an issue. I think there is such peer pressure they don’t want to step out and get people in trouble. But I’ve found today, especially in college, like, if you say something there’s a zero penalty—like you don’t get in trouble. If you're not supposed to have alcohol and you had alcohol but you saw there was abuse, you could say something. How—how do other teens, because we do have people who are teens that watch this as well, how do other teens maybe intervene with their friends who they might see this pattern?

Kennedy: Yeah, I like the, um, the saying too, "If you see something, say something," right? And you don’t—I’ve lost a friend to overdose and drug addiction, and it was the hardest thing ever going through that death and navigating that in. And I think just reflecting on that experience that I went through personally, like if I would have said something way earlier on in our relationship when I noticed, like, oh—like what you’re saying, that you just know internally, like, ooh, this isn’t right, or like, wow, that person is a lot different than I am when they use or when they drink, or whatever it may be.

Um, having that conversation with your friend. Like, calling them out, right? Or calling them in, that saying, like, "Hey, um, I’ve noticed you’ve been missing school a lot lately, and, you know, when we—and all you’re doing is coming to parties, and then when I try to hang out with you to go to the mall or to go get coffee, you’re not—you’re not wanting to. Like, you’re only showing up to parties," or, um, "You’re isolating a lot outside of parties," or whatever it may be. And just opening up that door, right? If we can even crack the door for some people and just be that person that they need to talk to, um, you’ll be surprised how well they respond for teens. And I think, and we know this too, right? Like peer support groups or peer, um, peer like, just having a peer person in your life care about you and love you and having that community, um, has a lot more impact than a therapist telling you what to do. Like, a teenager is probably just going to see me and be like, "That’s another adult in my life who is telling me how to live my life." When it’s a best friend, or a buddy, or a cousin who is the same age, you will start to pay more attention to them because they’re a different—they’re your age and they, um, have similar like lived experience, if that makes sense. So, yeah.

Engaging with a Professional Therapist

Damon: Absolutely, I—I really do agree with it. You know, how can therapists, you know, I know a lot of parents are going to ask this question, excuse me, how do therapists help in this situation? Like, how do—how do parents reach out to therapists? What do they say about this, right? Is it sometimes better for a therapist to ask the question as opposed to the parent? Because one of the things I’ve noticed, you know, is that sometimes when parents ask this question, there’s immediate defense, right? Because one, kids don’t want to get in trouble, they don’t want to tell on other kids, right? How—how do parents interact with therapists, and can we talk about that process a little bit?

Kennedy: Yeah, so I just want to preface saying every therapist is different. Um, a therapist who works in my office might not do what I do, and that’s perfectly right, because humans interact with humans in a way that they connect. So, um, what I do with my teens is we have an intake, right? And the intake, or I’ll know because the parent will reach out beforehand and be like, "Hey, so-and-so is experiencing an uptick in drug—drug addiction or alcohol use," or whatever it may be.

Um, so for me, as long as they are talking to someone, that is better than talking to no one. So if they are not talking to their parents, at least they’re talking to me, right? Or to their peers. Um, so I think, too, just like I—education is such a huge piece of all of this, um, and I think showing up for the teen in a way of like, "I don’t have any judgment towards you, like let’s talk about your drug use," you know, "Like you need to be honest with me in order so that we can heal whatever it is that’s, um, wanting—that's interesting you in using," or causing an interest in using for the teen.

So, like, um, a lot of it is just building that rapport for me and my teens and me showing up and being a human being and not just a clinical therapist, you know, where I—I know all the answers and they don’t. Like, I really like to walk with my teens and be like, "Wow, yeah," like validating their experience, talking about what—what is interesting about drugs or why they want to experiment, or you know, is it an undiagnosed mental health issue? And that is usually the number one thing of like, "Ah, I feel this depression in my body and I don’t even know how to identify it, right? So I’m going to use something to make me feel better because I don’t know what this is inside of me."

Um, so a lot of it is just education on mental health, building that rapport, being a safe space, asking them, like, "What do you need from me in order to help yourself?" right? Like, "I will be your soundboard if that’s all you need, I’ll be the older sister if I have to for five seconds," you know, "Like what’s going on?" Um, and I think creating that space and really allowing them to be, like, honest with their use as well, um, because I typically, if someone says they’re drinking two drinks a week, I usually am like, "Okay, you’re probably drinking four or five," you know? Like, let’s—I know that something else is going on beneath the surface. Um, so yeah, I think just sitting and waiting for people to open up and bear what they’re going through is something really important as well.

Long-Term Outlook and Strategies for Parents

Damon: Yeah, I really do agree with you. I think it’s a lot about education. You know, one of the things I think with people that are in recovery that have teens, one of the things that I hear a lot, and I know it’s something that I thought about, was look, there is this time, uh, with alcohol and drug use where you cross the line. You know, for me it was already in high school, right? I'd already kind of crossed that line. And you know, with alcoholism, you can’t make a, you know, you can’t make a—a pickle a cucumber again, right? Like, so once you—once you cross that line, it’s very, very, very difficult. And if you don’t have the information, like for me, I had no idea what alcoholism even was. Even though I had alcoholism in my family, I had no idea what that was. I—I—I—I had no idea, no education. There—there was zero education. It was like, it’s not good to drink and drive. You know, I heard that. But beyond that, there—there really wasn't, yeah, like, you either could handle it or you could not.

You know, I—you know, I want to talk a little bit about, um, about this idea of people who, you know, many kids, you know, statistically we know will drink and they’ll maybe do drugs. They might even get in trouble with it a little bit, they might experiment a little bit too much. An overwhelming amount of kids won’t have any addiction issues. What about the kids who do? You know, what—what—what about the kids who do, and their parents might be listening to this and saying, "You know, Kennedy, man, I—you know, we’re already on our third intervention and the kid’s not even 17," right? This perpetual... What advice would you give them? I know sometimes recovery is a long-term play. People are going to—I know it didn't, you know, it—it took me a while to be able to wake up, right? To what was actually going on. How do parents deal with that, um, because it seems very repetitive? Even if it’s a year of them saying the exact same thing over and over, like "this doesn’t work for you, look at the consequences." How do parents deal with—what’s the best strategy for parents to deal with that?

Kennedy: Get into therapy. That’s like, get into therapy, find a community of like—of parents going through the exact same experience, because with addiction and with teenagers, it’s a shame thing, right? Like, as a parent you’re going to internalize, "God, what did I do wrong? How could I have done better? Is it me?" All these things, right? And it’s—get into therapy, find a community, find other parents who are struggling with their teens with addiction, right? Like, it's an—and normalize it, normalize your own feelings while you’re going through this as well, and don’t ever give up, don’t ever give up on your kiddo. Like, if rehab over and over and over again clearly is not working, pivot in another direction, right? Like, get into outpatient, um, partial outpatient programs, get into weekly meetings with your kid.

Um, the number one determinant of if a kid will stay, um, sober after like a treatment is the, um, what—how do I want to say this? The, um, active participation after the program is over. So, weekly meetings with family and family counseling, weekly meetings with AA groups or whatever group it is that calls to you to get that support, right? Like, the number one thing with any kind of healing from mental illness or addiction is feeling normalized in your experience and also finding community within your experience.

Just make—give the burden, like, just a little inch. And something too with kiddos and addiction is that they make a 2% progress, if they’re a day sober, you better celebrate that as a parent, right? Like, removing your ego about what your kid should do, or what his or her addiction will look like, and removing it to be like, "This is their own individual experience and I am so proud of them for even making it three months when they only made it a month the first time," right? Like, let’s—let’s get a cake for them. Let’s do this, like, I’m so proud of you, and just be their biggest cheerleader in that way of like, "I’m so proud of you for going to a party and not drinking, or coming home on time, or I’m so proud of you for even telling me that you used or that you—that you need more support." So just celebrating the little things, and I know that’s such a cheesy statement that everyone says, but it’s so true. Like, I’m—I’m in your corner, I’m proud of you, and that’s something that I use in my own therapy practice of like, if we are 1% better every day, like, can you imagine what we'll be in five years? So, yeah, I think just celebrating those tiny little wins and just being there as a parent and not giving up.

Redefining Recovery and Final Thoughts

Damon: Yeah, and I think, you know, a lot of the times I’ve noticed one of the reasons why we started Recovered Life is we really wanted to focus on people living their best recovered life. You know, a lot of the—I’m just going to say like rehab marketing—is all lowest common denominator, like who would want that? Like, you know, kids are like, "This is like not the life that I want to live."

Kennedy: Heck no!

Damon: Yeah, I mean like, who—who wants that? You know, and when I—it’s interesting because when I’ve talked and worked with people who were like in colleges and stuff like that, and really, and I’m like going, "No man, you need to meet the people who are sober, who are really doing this, right?" These are the people that are more exciting. And I think the recovery out loud movement is really good in that way because it’s saying it’s like, "Hey, you know what, there are a lot of people that are in recovery living that life that you imagine you're living."

Kennedy: Mhm. Yeah.

Damon: So, final thoughts here, Kennedy. If people are listening to this, maybe there’s a parent listening to this or a friend who, uh, sees that a teen in their life is struggling a little bit with addiction but really is terrified to say anything, what’s your final thoughts on this? How—how—how would you approach that if you’re speaking to that person?

Kennedy: Ask yourself why you’re scared to say something. Like, really get to the nitty-gritty of it. Is it because you’re scared to hear the answer? Is it scary because you’re going to internalize the answer as something that you’ve done wrong? Um, just kind of put that ego to the side and really like show up for that teen like they need, and just ask the hard questions. If you’re scared to do it, find someone that will, right? Like, find a trained professional, find a therapist, find a peer support group, find whatever it is that’s going to ask those hard questions if you can’t, because those hard questions could absolutely save a life.

Damon: Priceless information, Kennedy. Kennedy McGuckin, thank you so much for, uh, joining us on the show today.

Kennedy: Thank you for having me.